beckyh2112 | Shattered Glass vs. Mirrorverse

Entry tags:

Shattered Glass vs. Mirrorverse

You know, when you get right down to it the Shattered Glass universe is almost... silly compared to the Transformers: Mirrorverse the fans invented.

There are a lot of good meta reasons for this. Number one being that Hasbro is in this business to make money, and part of that does come from the relative child-friendliness of Transformers. Even when we get to see Megatron flicking humans away ('07 Movie), we don't get to see a lot of the bodies. We get property destruction. And property destruction is pretty bad, but you'll notice that the Movie didn't say anything about how many people must have died during the Mission City battle.

In the cartoons, of course, humans never get killed. Transformers might, but it's usually played wonderfully tragic (Beast Wars, the animated movie), mostly ignored (Beast Wars and the animated movie again, different characters), or we have a resurrection in the not-too distant future (Optimus Prime, most incarnations). Again, the cartoons usually are quite fond of the property destruction, but heck, it took until Transformers: Animated for the Transformers to even be held accountable for their property destruction.

The comics are a different matter, but even when we're slaughtering Transformers wholesale (Underbase) or someone is cluster-bombing Earth (G2), there's never quite the same urgency or gut-churning horror and helplessness that some pieces of fanfiction can show so well. Charles RB's This is BBC1 gives a much better idea of what kind of damage the Transformers can do to the world than the comics/cartoons ever have.

Which, given the nature of the media, makes sense. Transformers is not a horror genre. It's science-fantasy and action-adventure. We can't really expect it to give us realistic results of what it displays.

But that does hamstring the officially-licensed Mirrorverse-equivalent. Because, to me, the point of a Mirrorverse has always been to contrast with the main universe and to explore the differences that come about when our heroes are villains. If the writers can't, or won't, do that with a crossover between the two universes, then going the horror route is a really good alternative.

Yeah, yeah, Shattered Glass did have a crossover victim. Except we took Cliffjumper from the Collectors Club comic timeline and dropped him into a Mirrorverse with a not-very-well-defined timeline.

(On the upside, evil Optimus Prime used to be a librarian, and he went crazy from reading the books that contain information mechs were not meant to know.

Also, what is with the number of Decepticons and Autobots in the Mirrorverse who have their roots in the university and education systems?

Also, also, Hot Rod has a moustache.

See what I was saying about Shattered Glass being a bit silly?)

Unfortunately, all we really see of the crossover victim is Cliffjumper going "wtf?" a lot until he decides to throw in with Megatron, because even if he is a paranoid fighter-jock, Cliffjumper believes in good and right. The limitations of the format they used really stand out here - one comic issue is not enough to give the readers much besides "Autobots bad, Decepticons good, Optimus Prime craaaaaaaazy". We barely even get to see all of the Botcon '08 Shattered Glass toys on stage in the comic, much less actually saying and doing things.

The ill-defined timeline really works against Shattered Glass here. If Shattered Glass had a specific G1 timeline it was mirroring, it would probably be a much more understandable why Megatron used to be a mathematician. (I doubt it, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.) As it currently stands, it doesn't really make sense, because we know extremely little of the history of the Shattered Glass universe.

Without that sense of history, we also lose a great deal of the contrast with the original universe. There is nothing in particular that defines Shattered Glass Starscream as anything other than Jetfire with a name change. His tech spec gives us a history that almost makes sense with the G1 cartoon history of Starscream. Sort of. If you squint. But then you put that in the same universe where Jazz has a twin named Ricochet, and they were an experiment created by Optimus Prime.

The Transformers: Mirrorverse has its own problems. The rampant legion of original characters detracts from the overall theme, in my opinion, and the no-slash rule means we've got a lot of female original characters running around whose principal purpose is to be a love-interest for a certain character.

On the other hand, if there's one thing the Mirrorverse does well, it's give you a very good sense of the horror of a world with evil Autobots and good Decepticons.

I leave you with the one Transformers: Mirrorverse fic I will reread, and the one I consider to be the absolute best of my admittedly limited reading: Cats' Cradle.

It could also be referred to as "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part Two: Mirrorverse."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The benefit of the April Fools Shattered Glass (or "Shattered Expectations" to use the Willis term) is that it's _deliberately_ silly, which manages to make it less silly than the real thing as it's openly a bit of fun. It also gets away with totally messing around with canon as its mirror bit is the characters. Plus, posh Grimlock!

Mirroring an precise G1 canon shouldn't be that hard either. For Marvel G1, you've got a specific point for divergence: Primus and Unicron. Here, Primus could've created his soldiers to _subjegate_ life and they've gone "wrong"; Optimus Prime is chosen mystically to get everyone back on track, and Megatron founds the Decepticons using his fame as a State Games champion. The Ark goes off eventually to clear the incoming asteroids (Optimus doesn't want his world trashed), Megatron gambles on hitting the Autobots' finest _before_ they come back, and both sides are lost on Earth.

Of course then, because the characters involved are different, you get a very different fiction: the Autobots outnumber the Decepticons and have different characters in them, everything Earth-wise should quickly diverge. (Cybertron, OTOH, could have benevolent Lord Straxus trying to contain the fanatical Autobot diehards who run about the planet fucking the peace up)

I'm curious to see how Animated would handle a Mirrorverse setup, since they do seem to be good at showing consequences most of the time. (Though a bit ham-handed now and then, like with Prowl and the upgrades.)

Not sure if it'd work to mirror Animated's plot of a few Autobot repair jockeys finding the AllSpark...

If so...maybe they decide to attempt to wipe out the 'Cons when they show up. Or somethin'. Can't think too well right now. Lousy sinuses.

So having not gotten to read the Botcon '08 comic, I don't know that much about the Shattered Glass minutia, but from what you've told me and what I've gathered from other sources, I have to agree with most of what you've said.

Hasbro, if they try to stay within the genre Transformers is nominally cast as, can't really explore the real depths of what a mirrorverse generally tends to allow, for exactly the reasons you listed. Since like I said I haven't read the comic I can't give any more specific details, but when you consider that for the most part death and destruction were remarkably sanitized in throughout the various TF series, it makes me wonder how different even a sanctioned mirrorverse could be.

And, wait, what's with the roots in the education system thing? Are they trying to say education causes madness and revolutionary thought or something? ;)

Also, now that I'm feeling remarkably like a yes-woman, you brought up one other point I'm much in agreement with. Transformers: Mirrorverse does have way too many OCs, and the no slash rule probably is the culprit. Considering this is me, that I think there's too many many of them is saying something. Still, it's an awesome universe, and Cat's Cradle is an amazing fic.

This reminds me how much I really do need to one day look back into resuming Red Dawn, my attempt to cover the MV from the the other side of the Iron Curtain (my reasoning being that along with the US any self-respecting invaders in the 1980s would bit the Soviets hard, too).

... Ooooooher! I think that would be quite interesting to read and hope you do get back to it. (I should also go read that Mirrorverse fic about Warpath on th warpath in France.)

*insert

childofatlantis's patented AU rant here*

I am tempted to play in the Shattered Glass verse myself, but I'm more interested in the Good Decepticons than the Evil Autobots - I'd rather see if I can write a Megatron and Starscream who are NOT just Optimus and Jetfire by other names.

I don't think I've ever heard your patented AU rant. /hopeful

This one is the specifically Shattered Glass related one. (http://childofatlantis.livejournal.com/339060.html) Pretty sure I've talked about it before, but I only added a tag for alterniverses recently so no idea where to find the other times.

It basically comes down to: doing an AU properly, in my opinion, involves subtlety, careful planning, and a love of playing with cause and effect that will take the storyline away from the basic premise and into new vistas, rather than just rehashing the canon with the serial numbers filed off. It's a sub-genre of fic I've been in love with for years, and the one I tend to get sucked into writing long projects for (I've got at least one major AU for every fandom I've been in, sometimes more), and seeing it done badly sets my teeth on edge.

*reads the rant* Interesting. Do you not like mirrorverses in general, or Shattered Glass in particular because Shattered Glass is badly done?

I tend not to like specifically allegiance-swap mirrorverses. I am willing to read a story where Optimus Prime turns out differently. I'm willing to follow logic that has him turning out "evil". I'm willing to believe a number of the "heroes" of our canon becoming "villains", and vice-versa, due to the repercussions of this change, directly or indirectly. But it has to all make sense individually, you know? "Optimus Prime is evil, so therefore the Autobots are all evil" doesn't wash with me. I have to have a reason for every single one of them to have chosen differently. Why is Jazz a psycho? Why is Hot Rod a mercenary? Why is Bumblebee a cold-blooded killer? What changed them, from our world? I need a changepoint, a moment where this universe branched off from the usual one, with all the consequences of the change mapped out logically, or else I need the timeline to be totally separate and starting from scratch (so that there may not have been reasons for the changes, but they at least have a chance to be true to the original characterisations, rather than forced on).

Shattered Glass is badly done, but I have honestly never seen a pure mirrorverse that I thought was well done, so I couldn't tell you how I'd feel about it. :) I would like to play in SG, but I am already aware that I would find it very, very difficult to allow more than the already specified "evil autobots" to actually be evil - I'd start thinking too hard about the whys and before you know it I'd have a bunch of extra neutral factions, a good few Decepticons-as-Autobots and vice-versa, and a Starscream who'd stab you in the back if he thought it was for the "good of the cause". I like shades of grey.

Interesting...

I love morality-swap AUs/mirrorverses. They're one of my favorite types of AUs, because exploring how everything falls out from a simple switch in morality intrigues me. Keeping the characters themselves but twisted by the dark looking glass is the kind of challenge that I love.

This likely stems from my general love of mindfucks and how brainwashing/reprogramming affects a person. A mirrorverse Silverbolt (a manipulative, ambitious, chilly killer, lord of the skies for all that he fears the heights from which he may fall) is just as fascinating to me as a Unicronian-reformatted Silverbolt (shield of the Void, ruthless in battle, mad as mad can be, lightning-lord, disdains the ground for the air) or Chaos-infected Silverbolt (green-eyed madman whose passions rage free, soft and manipulative in one moment, hard and fast as his lightning in the next).

(I will note that my personal mirrorverse is rather different from the Transformers: Mirrorverse project.)

Any good mirrorverse should, to me, not be the original universe with people in opposite positions. There should be a history of some sort that explains where everyone is coming from. I am very fond of the Transformers: Mirrorverse in that regard, as there is a very nice origin story of Orion Pax as a sullen, violence-tinged dockworker for Ratbat. He's an Autobot, though, and even though the Decepticon knows it's unfair to stereotype him as trouble, he still does so just a bit. And there's an underlying thread of the Autobots being second-class citizens.

Very nicely done, very interesting.

It's the balancing act between "this is Optimus Prime" and "this is an evil psychopath" that has to be made to work. To me, a mirrorverse only works properly with some history or at least some allusions to a mirrored history that you can recognize and develop in your own head. When it's just... semi-random like Shattered Glass is, there are problems.

I do think it rather defeats the purpose of a mirrorverse if you're making a whole bunch of the canonical good guys not evil. It should be possible with nearly everyone to fit them into the world once you've got the basics and some of the history down. As a for instance, the Bluestreak from the Transformers: Mirrorverse project had his city destroyed by Autobots. However, the Autobots told him that the Decepticons did it, and he joined the Autobots to get revenge on the Decepticons. (If I remember correctly, this lie also came back to bite the Autobots on the ass during the course of the Mirrorverse.)

Okay, all three of those Silverbolts = FUCKING FASCINATING. Where, where can I find them, or do they dwell only in your head?

Edit: I do love turning people evil. I really do, and I'm 100% with you on the "Holy mindfuck, batman!" thing. It's just that mirrorverses do it so sweepingly, and often illogically... well, like I said, I've never found one I liked, so who knows what I'd think if I did. And unfortunately the TF:MV's "no slash" rule puts me off exploring it.

Edited 2008-06-18 22:28 (UTC)

Well, Unicronian Silverbolt is named Jetstorm (http://heatherbeast.deviantart.com/art/Jetstorm-Colors-Transformers-46941357), and I roleplay (http://corruptedhope.livejournal.com/1249.html) with (http://the-deadster.livejournal.com/887.html) him (http://the-deadster.livejournal.com/2423.html) a lot (http://blackwingdove.livejournal.com/profile). Well, I used to, though that RP is sadly rather defunct now.

I've also written fics (http://beckyh2112.livejournal.com/tag/sideshot) with him and the Voidverse in general.

Green-eyed Silverbolt has some roleplaying logs on my hard drive. Sadly, I've never much done anything with my own mirrorverse. Mostly because there are some aspects from the Mirrorverse project I'd like to lift, and I don't feel comfortable with doing that.

Oooh, shinies. I shall be looking into them later, have to go now - though I have to say, the talking severed heads are disturbingly hilarious. :D

I'd rather see if I can write a Megatron and Starscream who are NOT just Optimus and Jetfire by other names.

Yes! This is exactly what bugs me about the whole concept of the Shattered Glass set-up. That right there.

:D The thing I do like about the SG comic, though, is that it's short and we don't get to see much of the characters - which gives me ample room to play. I ended up writing a shortfic a while back using Shattered Glass Megatron/Starscream, purely because I saw the prompt and thought "Hey, I could do that" and as I was doing it I fell a little in love with the idea of an underhanded, dirty-fighting Megatron and a sneaky, snarky, arrogant Starscream who are the good guys but still resonate with their original selves. I see mirrorverse Megatron as winning battles with tactics that normalverse Optimus would not approve of, and Starscream as taking more pleasure in his victories than Jetfire would ever be quite comfortable with.

I don't suppose you have a link handy, do you? It's just that I read a SG fic today and it led to flailing on my behalf because I don't quite see how the characterisations work in that universe and I'd like to see what other people have come up with.

*pokes* I'm curious, did you read "Cats' Cradle"?

I haven't yet, mostly because it's Mirrorverse about which I know a sum total of nothing, but if you think it's worth a read I'll check it out. ^^

Main thing you need to know for that fic is that the Autobots are evil, the Decepticons are good, and Perceptor is a fate worse than death.

It really is worth a read, especially if you're an Aerialbots fan.

I just did. I have Thoughts about it, but I need to go to bed now. And possibly cry about poor, broken Aerialbots. @_@

... Yeah. That fic makes me want to kill Mirrorverse Optimus Prime with fire and napalm for what he did. Poor Aerialbots. *sniffles*

Okay, so, my Thoughts On ~~Yaoi~~ The Fic... it's very clever, I like the specific paralleling of "The Key To Vector Sigma", particularly the two times Silverbolt interacts with Optimus Prime and it's a twisted version of the equivalent interactions in canon. ;_; I also like the way that Aerialbots start out pretty close to their canon counterparts, and it's through forced reprogramming that they become broken and evil - and I really, really liked the way it's never explicitly stated that Silverbolt was also reprogrammed (with added claustrophobia) because he himself doesn't realise it, but it's damned obvious to the reader.

Didn't like Optimus at all. Too much of a "Megatron with the serial numbers filed off" vibe from him, too violent - there was nothing recognisably Optimus about him. I'd like to see a mirrorverse Optimus who doesn't ever lay a finger on anyone, who is worshipped as a god and has devoted followers who will do anything for him, so that he doesn't even have to command them to hurt someone, they'll just do it.

It did make me realise there's another aspect to my dislike of mirrorverses, though - I don't like seeing the good guys gone evil. I am a big sucker for redeeming villains - not by turning them good, necessarily, but by greying their motivations so that they're not just cardboard cutout antagonists - and I am, as mentioned previously, quite interested in playing with the Shattered Glass Decepticons. But the first thing I thought on reading that fic was to wonder if the Aerials could be fixed, if the Decepticons could get hold of them and put them right, and to want to read that as a followup. I like to fix things, which means that 90% of my writing is always going to be not worth much on the great scale of literature - if there is any way to save someone, I will take it. I like, if not 'happy' endings, at least hopeful ones.

It's smut, so's you know. (http://community.livejournal.com/tf2007fun/506446.html?thread=13271374#t13271374) - not a whole lot in the way of characterisation in here, but it got me thinking.

I haven't actually read any SG fic myself. I kind of want to have a go at my own interpretations before I read other people's.

Excellent, thank you! I'll add that onto my reading list. ;D

Starscream isn't like G1 Jet/Skyfire! He's a bombastic, fair-minded superhero-agent for the Quintesson Federation!

In the _proper_ Shattered Glass-verse, anyway.

"humans never get killed"

Zamojin sorta are humans, and I'm pretty sure I didn't see them get up after the Quints shot them in the flashback in The Face of Nijika. But, admitted, no visible injuries and that's the only time I recall seeing organics die.

Meah, Shattered Glass is too short and too... unrefined for me to get into. The only thing I give a damn about is SG Starscream's cock-pit that has me laughing every time I see it. I acknowledge to be a complete nutcase. :)

All I know of Shattered Glass is what has filtered to me from chat.

As for Mirrorverse, between their mass of OCs and the fact that they don't allow for normalverse crossover, they've pretty much guarenteed that I won't check back. They define it as a Mirrorverse, and yet they never allow the reflections to see what's being reflected.

Lovelovelovemost AUs and I wish there were more in TF fandom that didn't involve American highschool. Don't like mirrorverse AUs much, or at least the ones I've read. Never quite sure whether they mean 'if things had happened to the bad guys/good guys differently and made their philosophies different' (which seems interesting) or if they mean 'if everything that happened to the good guys/ bad guys stayed the same and they were different people to start with' (which seems to defeat the purpose of writing about those characters to begun with.)

But I know only the bare bones of the TF Mirrorverse, and absolutely zero about the comics (Megatron as a mathematician? Really?)

(...no slash rule? Reallyreally? Why?)

OTOH, I like mindfuck fics, mostly when we get to see how other characters react to the one character's sudden change in personality. (Dark Designs ftgdw.)

You make good points about the rate of human squishification. (Weirdly, sometimes it seemed almost like the BW writers rated 'property/environment damage' above character damage. When Tigatron's pod shows up, the Maximals are willing to trade it to Megatron just so he doesn't shoot a couple of tigers. And Tigatron gets how many episodes in which to rend his garments over the beauty of nature and how horrible its destruction is? Whereas, as you say, Terrorsaur, Scorpinok, Inferno and Quickstrike get waved off if they get acknowledged at all. (Although, granted, we have eight other characters who get death scenes that are at least significant and commented upon.) *rambles on and on and on...*

...Having now read Cat's Cradle, I want to introduce Mirroverse Perceptor to Normalverse Vortex, and see if anyone flinches.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Shattered Glass vs. Mirrorverse

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject