In Which I Ramble in an Annoying Fashion about Fandom-Specific Tropes

[beckyh2112]

I think a lot of post-series Avatar authors take the easy way out.

They bring Kuei back to take over the throne and hand-wave getting rid of the Dai Li. They have Ozai commit suicide. They have Aang take away Azula's firebending. Oh, and with some years of loving therapy, she gets sane again and is no longer a threat to anyone.

Gag me with a spoon.

Assuming Long Feng is still alive, you really think he's not going to lie, politic, and manipulate his way into maintaining his power? How many people in Ba Sing Se really know what Kuei had him arrested for? How many people are going to remember that after the Fire Nation invades perhaps a week, two weeks later?

How many of them are going to go 'the Fire Nation never would have done that if Long Feng had still been around'?

Would Kuei even want to go back? Assuming he's still alive as well, what attraction does Ba Sing Se hold for him over the possibility to see the entire world? Ba Sing Se has been his cage his entire life. Not even all of Ba Sing Se, either; just the Palace and possibly the Upper Ring.

Even if he does come back, if Long Feng is still around, how the hell do you think the two of them are going to work things out between them?

Given how little of Ozai's greatness actually comes from his firebending, the thought of him committing suicide over losing it is almost laughable. He's charismatic as all hell. If you're polite, he's ruthless; if you're not polite, he's a psychopath.

He became the Firelord by convincing his wife to kill his father, by having the Fire Nation court and military willing to back his ascension over that of his brother, and not by firebending at all.

He conquered the world because Azula loved her daddy very much. Not by him firebending at all.

The man is at his most dangerous without his firebending, because I'm willing to bet a lot of people are going to underestimate him now that he can no longer firebend.

Ozai will surely be depressed as all hell for a while, but depressed does not equal suicidal and suicidal does not equal actually going through with suicide.

Having Ozai commit suicide is just a cheap way to get him off-stage. Because evidently a lot of fan-authors aren't willing to imagine what he might do to get out of prison and make a new life for himself.

Azula magically becoming sane again == haahahahahahahaNO. Do some research into the likely mental health services available at the tech level Avatar seems to enjoy. Consider also, why the HELL Zuko would want her sane/functional again, given how much damage she's done sane/functional.

She, like her father, is plenty dangerous without her firebending. Not as much so as Ozai, but she's still young. Her taking a break from sanity is a blessing for pretty much everyone.

Having Aang take away her firebending is a pretty horrible disservice to Aang. He's still going to have to deal with possibility being overwhelmed by her. There's also the fact that the only reason he spiritbent Ozai in the first place is because the only other option was to kill Ozai.

There are other options with Azula. Her firebending isn't on the same 'demigod-like' level as Ozai's was; Zuko is her equal in power by the end of season two. He also knows things she will never learn - lightning-redirection and "The Firebending Masters" proved that.

Make things difficult for your characters. Don't take the easy way out.

Comments

[ginzai.livejournal.com]

Wow, how much fail is that? I don't read a lot of Avatar fic exactly because of stuff like this. I could see that Azula would one day recover from her break down, but she's not going to become sweet and kind and side with Our Heroes, supporting her brother's claim to the throne. Azula is ambitious and bad ass. She conquered Ba Sing Se at age fourteen and she did it by being smart, clever, and wickedly political. Even if she did eventually recover her sanity, her desire for power isn't going to go away.

She was named the Fire Lord by her father and she's a singularly dangerous person as a result. How many people in the Fire Nation aren't going to be thrilled that they're suddenly being forced to cooperate with all of these "inferior" nations? How many of them are going to think back with great fondness for when the Fire Nation was at the top of the militaristic food chain and perhaps resent the fact that Zuko called a halt to the invasion while they were winning? This is especially true because Zuko himself can't have the best possible reputation in the Fire Nation. The propaganda spin on why he was banished to begin with had to have been epic, and then he didn't exactly make the best of showings of himself when he finally got to return. How many people are going to remember him traveling the few hundred meters to his girlfriend's house and capering off to the beach, rather than dealing with important matters of State? The fact that he didn't have much of a choice won't really help him, it's all a matter of perception.

These aren't just people who have been forced into fighting; Fire Nation kids are brainwashed to believe themselves the superior nation and that their war against the rest of the world was justified. You're absolutely right, Azula regaining her sanity is pretty much the worst possible thing that could happen to Zuko because it gives any Fire Nation individual who doesn't trust the banished prince an icon to rally behind.

Ozai isn't as dangerous a figure, I don't think. At least not in his own right. I don't see him acting as a figurehead because he overplayed his hand with his desire to burn the Earth Kingdom. That went over the line by a good measure and I doubt he'll ever have the same popularity that he once did as a result. The whole point was to conquer the world, not to destroy it, after all. But Ozai is incredibly dangerous regardless because he's the one who would best be able to scheme to get Azula back on the throne and he could easily rule with her as his puppet. That's especially true if Azula were still insane. You're right, he doesn't seem the sort to easily give up. He schemed for years to take power for himself pre-series; why wouldn't he do just as much afterward? Especially given the apparent longevity of the Fire Nation dynasty leaders.

Totally agree with you, all things considered. Make things difficult for your characters - the story will be so much more interesting as a result!

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

Ozai committing suicide is such a trope for post-series stories. It's usually a one line throwaway, too. Just makes me go "dude, you could just LEAVE HIM IN PRISON if you don't want to deal with him".

Azula probably can recover; I just think it's going to take more than two years and it's going to take a hell of a lot of effort and a lot of people aren't going to be happy about it. Because of all the points you just made. (Hell, I know I don't want to deal too horribly much with all of the huge Fire Nation political problems they're undoubtedly going to go through [because I'd rather deal with the EK ones], but I avoid that by NOT EVER DEALING WITH AZULA. And knowing me, I'll probably tackle things in the FN sooner or later.)

Ozai isn't dangerous as a public figure, to my mind, but I think he's hugely dangerous as a politician and schemer.

Not sure I agree with destroying the Earth Kingdom as overplaying his hand; people went along with it, after all. Besides, there's a lot of people-swaying power in "Ozai was destroyed at the height of his success, not merely destroyed but brutally maimed on a spiritual level".

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

"perhaps resent the fact that Zuko called a halt to the invasion while they were winning?"

Hello, stabbed-in-the-back theory! You certainly won't lead to major political strife and possibly an even worse belligerent regime taking over!

And that's not counting the possibility of civil war against Zuko, the issues of thousands of unemployed soldiers, and parts of the Fire Nation seizing the opportunity to secede. (Some parts of it are bound to have a unique ethnic majority or a formerly independent past - why should it be any different to the UK, Spain, Japan, China etc - and any secessionist movement will LOVE the resulting chaos)

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

Additional: also chuck in new political movements trying to seize power (hardcore socialism and communism got REALLY big in Germany after WW1), the economy being upset by the lack of conquering, and every single social problem that was either quashed or provoked by the Fire Lord* is going to explode.

Expect the other nations to patiently wait for the Fire Nation to be very fucked up before they go "friend Zuko, we shall help you!". Cos hey, why HELP them keep their air force?

* Such as, say: economic slump (LOOK AT CONQUEST INSTEAD SHINY), government departments clashing (deliberately so they're kept busy), any oppressed religious/ethnic groups, draconian social values, any education systems deliberately designed to push kids towards the military...

[inuyatta.livejournal.com]

wtfffff...I've been tempted to do Post-series fic, if only because I can make it realistically MUCH more difficult for the characters. Well, mostly Zuko. I mean, come on, his position is set up so precariously, it's just BEGGING for a rebellion due to the way he took the throne.

Though sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who notices this, probably because I grew up watching HKseries set in Ancient China where this was a common event. =\

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

I think too many people want to concentrate on romance stories for after the series. And that's fine and wonderful, but there's not much need for a lot of this stuff to be touched on at all if you're doing a romance.

At least for me, it's not going to be a huge turn-off if your fic makes no mention of Ozai, Azula, Kuei, Long Feng, or political shenanigans while Zuko and Katara, or Zuko and Aang, or Zuko and Piandao get cozy. However, throwing in any of the above-ranted stuff gives me a knee-jerk reaction of "uh, no", and the more you pile on, the more I go "uh, NO".

As an example, was reading a happy romance story today with sane!Azula. I could handle that for the sake of the story, because it was enjoyable. Then we abruptly got it mentioned that Ozai had killed himself a few years ago.

Couldn't for the life of me figured out what that detail added to the story.

[inuyatta.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I can understand this urge, as so many people were dissatisfied with the 'ships--even the people who shipped them! XD Luckily, romance can pretty much be self-contained for all the reasons you mentioned. However, I always feel that in a long fic, romance shouldn't be the sole focus if it can be helped.

Funny thing is, that list you put up there--those are my immediate signs to hit the 'back' button.

I...I don't get why someone would do that. If you're trying to give Azula a happy ending, and don't mention Ozai at all, and then throw in the detail that he offed himself some time ago...wtf, it's kinda character-raping to think that Azula wouldn't have reacted to that somewhat during the course of the story? I mean, Ozai was a HUGE part of her character, so...O_o

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

The urge is completely understandable. I've never written a long romance, so no idea how I'd pace one out, but you'd definitely need more going for it than just the romance.

I can take one of them. As long as that one isn't Ozai committing suicide. That just kills my interest in a story completely. (I am biased~)

It was very odd. That particular fic was pretty much what inspired this entire rant today, since it hit on all of those tropes. Am glad it was short. >_

[inuyatta.livejournal.com]

Even in romance, there has to be conflict, and quite honestly, I can never just write ONE genre--I like to mix things up with a lot of comedy if I can, y'know? I get bored otherwise.

alksjdflksdfjklsdf Understandable rant. Holy shit, that's a lotta fail for a short fic.

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

but you'd definitely need more going for it than just the romance.

I went for explosions, insane power-hungry villainess with an unhealthy obsession with the hero's late father (and unholy jealousy of said hero's late mother, who the hero takes after), invading alien robots, a ghost or two, interfering mothers, more explosions, and, of course, the usual mixed-cultural misunderstandings between the hero and the heroine.

It seemed to work.

[banditjoeykuba.livejournal.com]

You know... this rant makes me realize why I don't like most post-finale fics...

And it makes me want to write something where:
1) Loyalists (either to Ozai, or Imperial Fire Nation, or Sozin even) manage to break Ozai out of prison
2) A few weeks (months?) later, a surprise attack is launched on Zuko. AND HE DIES. (What the hell. I love character death. >_> Nothing against Zuko.)
3) Aang has to rush to the FN to try to keep the Loyalists from ruining everything (the peace/unity/magical rainbows and kittens) they worked so hard for.
4) ???
5) PROFIT!

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

Interesting!

It could be done. It could likely be done really easily and believably. I'm not sure where you'd go after plot point #2 there; guess it depends on whether you want to do a darkfic or a "the heroes fight like hell but eventually triumph" fic.

Though without Zuko to install as Firelord, Aang and them are going to have even more trouble in the Fire Nation. Gah, can't really think of an answer that will make things not get worse- Unless we install Mai as Firelord now that Zuko is dead.

All this discussion, for me, makes me want to write some politic fic where the more powerful daimyos have a big argument over whether or not to back Zuko as Firelord. I don't think anyone in the Fire Nation really wants a civil war, but the FN is going to be a hot mess after the end of the series.

So's the Earth Kingdom.

...

PAX HYDRO!

[neldluva.livejournal.com]

I just had a thought while reading this post ... how do you think the White Lotus would have handled Long Feng in the re-taking of Ba Sing Se? Somehow I doubt he would have still been imprisoned ... even with his Dai Li with Azula in the FN, he would have found some way to escape and return to power, maybe? Sneaky guy is sneaky. Hmm. Being smart, he probably would have helped the White Lotus re-take the city, but I can't see him handing power back to anyone.

PS: Thanks again for helping me out with whatever was going up with that Azula-without-firebending story. The way I'm doing it now is so much more fun. :D (Also, more complicated and more terrifying. What's scarier than firebending Azula? Less-sane Azula who could someday regain her firebending. Definitely.)

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

Also, surely the Earth Kingdom is going to be demanding reparations from the Fire Nation for all that damage they did? Then there's the certainty that a lot of people who collaborated or fraternised with the FN occupiers (or were believed to, or were accused of by an enemy) are going to "disappear"...