Because my flist hasn't gotten enough posts from me today

[beckyh2112]

Who do you think is the most honourable G1 Decepticon and why?

Please specify your interpretations as being from the cartoon, the Marvel comics, or the Dreamwave comics. Please do not mix and match continuities. Feel free to answer for each of those three continuities seperately.

Comments

Depends on your definition of "honour"... ;)

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

Cartoon-wise, my spontaneous answer is "Cyclonus." I'm basing this on his great loyalty to Galvatron, which was evident throughout, but esp. in FFoD (Cyclonus didn't rest until he had brought Galvatron back) and in Webworld (Cyclonus tried to find a cure for his leader instead of disposing of him). Also, in The Killing Jar, Cyclonus saved Ultra Magnus' life.

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

Comic-wise - Carnivac. This is a guy who was forced to _desert_ the Decepticons because it was either that or kill someone he'd fought alongside in the Time Wars. And he _liked_ being a Decepticon and killing things - his decision was based on no moral grounds but solely on refusing to kill an old comrade-in-arms (and if he hadn't been forced to choose he'd still be a 'Con).

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

Cartoon-wise, I'd have to say Cyclonus as well, though Blitzwing is a good second-place. Cyclonus got more airtime to show his stuff, though. He's also touchy about other Decepticons falling short of his standard--look at how disgusted he was getting with both Octane and the Sweeps for their behavior in "Starscream's Ghost".

On the flip-side, I think Starscream is excessively maligned as dishonorable and treacherous. He made no secret from day one that he thought Megatron was the wrong leader for the Decepticons and that he intended to take over. He told Megatron that to his face! It's not treachery when someone tells you up front "I'm your enemy and plan to oust you as soon as I can". And it wasn't Starscream who did the betraying when it came to the Combaticons...

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

"It's not treachery when someone tells you up front "I'm your enemy and plan to oust you as soon as I can"."

Or it could just be very stupid treachery. ;)

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

Or it could be that he didn't really want to off Megatron (but if I go into that, we'll still be here tomorrow).

Or it could be that he wanted to assert himself as a good Decepticon 2IC (i.e. someone who, as per Decepticon culture, is supposed to be at the leader's throat).

I know the view of Starscream as stupid is very popular, especially among male fans (no, I'm not saying that to be sexist, just as an observation), but I don't think he would have survived as long as he did and remained 2IC as long as he did if he hadn't somehow been good at what he was doing, you know?

[charles-rb.livejournal.com]

"I know the view of Starscream as stupid is very popular, especially among male fans"

That's an interesting point - why is it female transfans think one thing about Starscream and male ones think another (namely, "yeh dumb arsegike!")?

As for how he remained such a high-ranker, I figure it for a cross between him having some tactical competency and Megatron wanting to make sure he knows for a fact where the most likely backstabs & coups will come from.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

That's why I said, 'depends on your definition of "honour".' By Decepticon standards, the behaviour of someone who employs any means necessary (including treachery) and keeps his leader on his "toes" (as Starscream does) might well be supremely commendable.

[sapphirebreeze.livejournal.com]

I'm going to re-iterate my vote from last night, just so that it's in more permanent format.

For the G1 cartoon, I still go with Long Haul. I just find the idea of loyally doing a job you hate and that gains you neither glory nor the respect of your fellows over a nine million year period to be a lot more impressive/honorable than a couple of flashy deeds over the short term.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

Good point.

[lunatron.livejournal.com]

I think the problem with determining the most honourable Decepticon is that most honour is inherently stupid.*

It's also really subjective.

I mean, Cyclonus is the common example, but he seemed okay with leading the Decepticons on his own, on the strength of his own power and charisma, until he randomly decidely to haul Galvatron back. And then he tried to get Galvatron put into a nuthouse. Now, you can say that Cyclonus was trying to do the right thing and get his leader healed. You could also say that Cyclonus violated his honour by questioning his leader.

So I need to think about this more closely to see if any had honour and weren't stupid.

*I can conclude this from Morte D'Arthur, wherein the Knights' Code leads to a lot of contradictions. Simple rules creates complex problems.

[tiamat1972.livejournal.com]

I have to partially agree with your points on Cyclonus' honour. The points you bring up are where his honour conflicts with his loyalty.

To us, Cyclonus would seem the most honourable Decepticon. But would another Decepticon see him that way? They seem to have a culture where backstabbing is the norm.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

I mean, Cyclonus is the common example, but he seemed okay with leading the Decepticons on his own, on the strength of his own power and charisma, until he randomly decidely to haul Galvatron back.

Well, that's one way of seeing it. I mean, we don't know exactly what happened between the movie and FFoD. For me, it's hard to imagine that he ever saw his leadership during that time as anything other than stewardship, but then I admit you could ask, "Why didn't he bring back Galvatron earlier?" Of course, the most obvious answer to that is, "He wasn't sure if Galvs was even alive, and the 'Cons were in a condition where they couldn't really afford a 'let's bring back our leader' quest that held no guarantee of success." Note how Cyke himself phrases his decision as "We must take desperate measures." (emphasis mine) He basically waited until being without Galvatron (not just him being without Galvatron, but the 'Cons being without Galvatron) seemed worse to him than the risk of putting what little energon they still had in the "retrieve Galvatron" mission. I wouldn't call that a random decision.

You could also say that Cyclonus violated his honour by questioning his leader.

Questioning his leader for (what he thought was) his own good, though.